So why exactly these are better than the Keepers of Time revered ones ? Wasted item stats on str :(
are about as good or better than timewarden's... Do you can tell? They are getting nerfed as well?
They are better than T4 if you ask me.
New artwork from Green Lawbringer, to red/black doomplate/bold artwork.
New looks in 2.1.2 for all the Karazhan tank gear
heph, i didnt say shield block rating, i said shield block meaning the ability.
I guess blizz finally listened to the warrior community as we all hoped that the poo colored lawbringer models would be changed out for just about anything!
As a warrior tank i highly suggest stacking stamina gems in these, though you do need avoidance these come with 29 dodge and some defense rating which is more than enough avoidance on one piece of armor to keep the rest of your gear balanced.
Sorry, but this is pure rubbish
For one, no boss in the game can ever hit for 15k *in a single hit*
The worst any decent warrior tank has ever taken is a 2.5k cleave,
Followed by a 4.5k normal swing
Followed by a 9k crushing.
That's right, over 16k damage in 2 seconds, but it's still not *in a single hit* and 2 seconds is still enough time for reactive healing.
Will that happen to a paladin tank? No, it's litterally impossible as long as holy shield or redoubt is up. (Given they're uncrushable of course..)
If there's one thing you should have noticed by now, it's that paladins are slowly taking over all warriors' jobs for tanking and the reason why is because they are *forced* to push 60%+ avoidance. Combined with their insane threat and ranged aggro moves like avengers shield, there's boss fights were paladins are matching up to the jobs of TWO warriors.
Stop stacking stam and forcing your raid to bring an additional 1-2 healers to keep you alive.
Secondly, shield block value can be godly.
In boss fights with warriors it can be a 75%+ chance to mit another 30 damage odd, when your other choices (armour, stam) are useless.
Also it's always there, and while Shield Block only makes it a 75% odd chance to remove 30 damage, over 10 blocks that's 300 damage you haven't taken - the very same thing as having 30 more stam, except unlike health it's not a container, you don't have to be healed to keep this effectiveness.
Paladin tanking is where block value truly becomes godly, as the only hits a paladin takes *are blocks*, every time you take physical damage you are blocking a portion of it as a paladin.
Finally, any tank can be non-reactively healed.
You can take 20 healers and spam a rogue or a mage and the result will stay the same - the diffference is that it's not effective raiding.
When you're not being reactively healed, the only thing that matters for a tank is taking less damage than you're being healed for.
In other words the damage incoming to the tank cannot exceed the damage being healed.
I'm not saying that you should be stacking avoidance to the neglect of all other stats - far from it actually.
What i AM saying is that you can only push the stam vs avoidance argument for so long until you become either a mana sponge that requires twice as many healers as you should do, or you become a tank that gets two-shotted because you haven't got enough stam.
Having around 40-65% avoidance is paramount, in fact reaching this goal is more important than stam.
I say this because you can have 20% base avoidance and 15k hp, but it doesn't matter when you could have 60% avoidance and 14k hp, and that's what alot of gearing calculations come down to, and that's what paladins aim for, 60% avo and 12k odd hp.
Yes, per point avoidance seems minimal, laughable even, but you compare the defensive stats later on and you notice a rediculously large difference. This is because the total figures from all of your gear and abilities is where the true worth of avoidance is seen.
Editted for clarity >.> it's 5am
all of these comments are from warriors.
these pants would work for paladin tanks as well, and with their lower stamina, and more reliable (albeit less potent) avoidance augmentation (Holy Shield), +stamina gems are probably a better way to go.. 12 stamina (the difference if you choose +6 stamina red/yellow gems instead of +12 blue gems, factoring in the bonus) isn't necisarily worth 8 dodge, and defense gets worse comparably after 490.
so go +stamina.
Upgrading to these pants from Timewarden's Leggings leaves you with...
+ 250 Armor
+ 24 Strength
+ 9 Defense Rating
+ 18 Dodge Rating
- 9 Stamina
Regardless of how you choose to gem the item.
I have to agree -- go with the Stam. Who ever thinks it doesn't matter in Karazhan to have tons of health is just a moron...Who likes to wipe? If you have a tank that can take some extra hits and be fine, what is the problem? The more life your tank has lessens the change of a wipe and the down rank on heals is also a great thing. I have a warrior and a paladin -- done it both ways and it's nice to see a tank with lots of health, and from a paladin point of view, it's nice to have 2 healers keeping your tank up on Prince with rank 4-5 flash heals for phases 1 & 3...
Fancy Pants !
There's a guide to tanking out there that explains how getting a series of blows from a boss serves as a wipe NO MATTER HOW MUCH HP you stack in high-end raid bosses. You'll get hit for a 22K combo and there's NOTHING Around it if you don't have avoidance. It doesn't matter if you get an extra 2K hp, it won't help when you're still short 3K.
You are technically ALWAYS depending on your avoidance.
I used to stack +12's all the time- but you figure out later on that you need a balance. After looking at all the wipes I have, I find that stamina would NEVER have helped me survive a single one of those wipes. I was always killed by at least 1K-1.5K.
Like a previous poster mentioned above- you're always chain-healed. You never wipe because you don't have enough hp for heals to keep you- you wipe because you'll get spiked for dmg in between your heals. Simple.
My two cents, but it's up to you whether or not you want to gamble your repair bills to test it.
"Wrynn" is refering to the current ruling family of the Alliance,
is the boy king that rules the alliance now.
The Wrynn Dynasty is the Wrynn family. These legguards could well be armor passed down through the family. The Curator, as in a museum curator or gallery curator, is keeping these items safe on display. In other words, they are loot from the gallery itself, which the Curator is merely the guardian of.
If you replace Felsteel leggings with those, you get:
-4 Defense rating
+29 Dodge rating
33 Defense Rating
Wrynn Dynasty Greaves
27 Defense rating
29 Dodge rating
Getting revered with KoT is a joke.
+69 stamina and 900 some odd armor vs +42 stam 1100 armor +12 stam +12 stam +12 stam from 3 stars of elune, put this at +78 stamina. nice try , keep ur blue
...Wrynn Dynasty Greaves are much better tanking legs.
That is all.
Yep, these legs are complete crap. More defense and more stamina on Timewarden's Leggings, for just the sacrifice of a little armor and some dodge (+6 stam bonus too, maybe, if you actually go for for the .48 dodge gem and two of the 1.56 defense/+6 stamina gems).
Edited, Feb 24th 2007 10:45am by Enyo
is better, wtf :p
Timewardens and Resolute defender will get nerfed next patch, so these might actually be useful.
They nerfed timewarden.. so these acualy is kindah better now =)
These and all of the kara tanking plate is now red/grey/black Bold set graphic instead of horrible Lawbringer
even after the nerf patch, these aren't amazingly better than timewarden's, but yeah still an upgrade
Yeah I upgraded to these last night from Timewarden's as well. Creative use of gems and you can get just about the same amount of stamina on both, but the other stats make up for it, these are indeed better, but GEEZ could they have made them any uglier? Between this and my Jade-Skull Breastplate, my tank now looks like a rodeo clown. Gotta find a tabard now that covers up this mess...
creative use? i dont really get that. just slap 3 x +12 stam gems on it and you have 88 stam. yeah they arent cheap but it is available.
After 490 defense, the next most important thing is +stamina. Just look at Vestige of Death and Taxes and you'll see why he's their MT. Avoidance comes naturally from better armor equip bonuses, you shouldn't really have to use your sockets for avoidance unless you're severely gimped in one area.
would be nice to see them switch the red or one yellow socket to a blue socket ... for the +12 stam, then you get a +6 stam/+whatever and +avoidance red... and you are good for +24 stam + enchant, not bad :)
I still got the time waders, i got the ZG enchant on them which makes them pretty awsome.
ill still try to get these but the ones ive got will last me a long time even if i dont get them
Sigh, it be good to put that hide thing on it that gives 40 stamina and 10 agility, also i would put all 12 stam gems in the sockets, dam this is going be expensive.
got em last night...
yeah you lose a bit of stamina if you dont socket with all +12 gems when compared to timekeepers, but massive +defense and dodge bonuses are worth it. too bad they look like vomit
got these today:) glad they changed the model though. They looked like crap before. +30 stam +10 agi and +12stam gems all the way for me.
THis pants with out a dough are way better that the Timewarden's Leggings.
= +250 armor
+18 dodge rating
+9 defense rating
Now that's alot of + you will only be loosing 9 stamina and thats nothing compare to what you are gaining. So Yes I will consider this A BIg Upgrade, specialy with all that dodge.
For PVE Tanking, I think only these are better:
- Warbringer Legguards(T4)
- Destroyer Legguards (T5)
- Praetorian's Legguards (Black temple drop)
- Onslaught Legguards (T6)
do these have the same green/yellow color to them as abrhamis (forgive the spelling) shoulders and pan'zar chest?
These are part of a Bold lookalike matching set, every peice drops from Karazhan.
Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden
: Maiden of Virtue
: Opera Event (any)
Wrynn Dynasty Greaves
Mantle of Abrahmis
Ironstriders of Urgency
Seems to be part of some kind of Karazhan 'set'. At least items with matching graphics.
Vambraces of Courage
Crimson Girdle of the Indomitable
Iron Gauntlets of the Maiden
Wrynn Dynasty Greaves
Mantle of Abrahmis
See also my screenshot with all the items on in the dressing room.
both warrior t4 and these dropped on curator last time i went in for kara
i think these are great, and since def rating over 490 doesnt matter, stacking stam is great for them, the priest won t4 hands which was fine with me. i was just happy i got the pants :)
To the post above . If you Dodge, parry,block so much how are you going to get any rage? Are you serious man you must be insane... With high lvl Dpsers (PEw PEw) you have no chance keeping aggro... SO yheaaa
main tank in our guild, lose a role on this against OT, plus lose a role a role against our healer on tier 4 token,hope this drop again stuck with keepers of time one. want this baby so bad maybe next week again btw curator is so easy when u got the tactics right. peace good luck to all trying to get it.
droped today given to me without even letting ppl roll BOOYA
hp > avoidance, consistancy + the most hp possible makes it easier for healers to heal. avoidance comes with gear upgrades. wasting gem slots on parry/dodge is funny
During Kara the most important thing is mitigation NOT avoidance for the MT. All the DPS will be well equiped as craftable epics are all trainer items and +1k SD is common. Any tanking epics need to be EARNED! So to keep up the threat you do need to be hit. That bein said wasting gem slots on +def is totally mental! My avoidance/mitigation is 18/15/43 with these legs, my only kara drop after 6 weeks! I find the insane block rating really helps me stay alive and generate rage to deal with the stupidly powerful DPS classes. Go ahead and flame me but i find mitigating damage is better than avoiding it at the moment, but yes i have 3x+12 stam gems and the nethercleft armor kit...expensive but gives me the +500hp i would normally get from a flask of fortifacation.
... Avoidance is part of mitigation
Mitigation is reduicing damage recieved, and taking no damage is the ultamate damage reduction.
There are two types of tanks, stam tanks, and mitigation tanks. There is no such thing as an avoidance tank, because avoidance tanks are just mitigation tanks.
FOR PPL WHO MISSED OUT ON THE IMPORTANT STUFF READ HERE !
miss = 0 damage 0 rage
dodge = 0 damage but also 0 rage
parry = 0 damage but he does hit you..ergo you still get the rage
block = "the second armor"how much damage reduced depends on block value..( i would say average of 350-400 for a serpentine TK Tank)
you get rage from blocks
As you can see parry is the best thing for a warrior...PERIOD but yea its hard earned...
If you stack to high on dodge you WILL NOT create enough aggro to make the DPS realy nuke the boss...
They need to hold back all the time and we all know those gyes get tired of holding back after 4/5 minutes.
.more rage= more aggro =higher aggro= dps dont need to hold back= more damage dealth= faster kill= you win = ppl love you
IF you have 30% dodge and 18 % parry and 20% block....i would consider changing some gear to more block EMEDIATLY..
Dont want to seem like a smuzt here but alot of ppl dont have a friggin clue about tanking when they realy think they do....its like watching Idol sometimes...
Like when you see some of those ppl that cant sing AT ALL but are realy convinced that they can.
And when the judges yust start laughing and telling them sorry mac but your in the wrong place,they have a mental brakedown and satt hating everyone...
This is yust the same thing...
YOU CAN NEWER GET ENOUGH AGGRO.!
i wery often stack with more hit and crit gear yust as long as i stay over the 490
yea i take more damaage but the healers have about the same amount of mana when the boss is dead cuz we killed him faster cuz i made higher and faster treath...
Most ppl know this but certenly not all so there ya go ...
I think I block for about 330 right now as a barely-kara geared tank... anyways, 12 stam gems in these is the way to go, period.
Keepin' it short an' simple. :)
Picked these legs up last night, most likely gonna socket one defenders tanzanite and two Solid stars...
Stamina tank theorycrafting lives on with a BIG debate and i think there is only one way to resolve the current "Solid Star Spamming".
Blizzard MUST make more obvious choices for gems. Epic gems that combine BOTH high stamina and avoidance/Mitigation.
10 parry rating, +12 sta for example, but only unique equipped.
Would sure as hell get all the tanks moving and Cutting/Farming them as drops...
This is a very shaky example and i hope there will be atleast some changes. Blizzard is now making all the tanks waste the slots color, there is NO point to socket anything else than +12 stamina because theyre the BEST in all regards because of the +120 hp provided by them.
i have a 70 tauren tank, mostly gruul/kara epics. i agree wholeheartledy with the post bout 2 up. +hit and crit rating help HUGELY with generating aggro. u crit a shield slam and a revenge here and there and u shoot ahead. in kara no probs i get to 1400 TPS while still having bout 19-20khp buffed up. guys any decent tank will no put in +defense,parry block or dodge rating gems in. u GET those avoidance/mitigation stats from higher gear. look at Kungen, Nihilum's MT. ALL +15 stam gems in and he has like a 28% dodge parry and 30% block etc. so stack in stam and let the gear buff ur avoidance and mitigation stats. more hp=more room for healers. if u have a %^&*load of mitigation but only 15k hp fully buffed, yea sure the guy would miss 75% the time but when he landed a shot on u hello 1-2 shot and healers would be %^&* he went down like a sack of crap. so stack in stam!
been thinking the same thing as a dps war and my guild is farming kara now so its easy to get if I can use these till I get the legs from heroic mech
mmmm, a different approach using these as DPS leggings, if there is a prot warrior/pally in the raid let them have priority, else if no1 is gonna use it i guess u could use it till the heroic mech ones which r !@#$in awesome.
I can see a prot pally rolling for these and putting something other than def and sta in the slots, but to roll on these when you are the guild leader and your main "warrior" tank needs an upgrade and then put the sta and def in the slots is outrageous. I would think you would want the warrior to be well equipt especially since a pally will never have the same hp and armor a warrior will have when they are dressed with the same gear.
Another something to add on the dodge vs hp/mitigation debate.
Sure, 12 stam is 120 hp. But lets talk about EFFECTIVE hp. Lets just say your mitigation is 60%. This means that your effective hp earned from that 12 stam gem is not 120 hp, it is 120 + (120*.6)= (120 + 72) = 192 effective hp. HP is really just a buffer - you need it for whatever you chose. However remember that high mitigation and high hp really do run hand in hand.
Personally i believe that gear should be chosen based on encounter. At this point in the game, almost a year since TBC, tanks should have developed a few sets. Maybe a high armor/BV set for higher threat gen and physical mitigation, plain stam set for high magic dmg encounter, and high dodge set for especially hard hitting encounters.
and of course, its only kara. any epic your wearing should be suitable. Im talking 25 mans and beyond.
Food for thought.
That is a really good comment man. I like the idea of the different armour sets. Could work really well :)
just wanna say a thing; not all the damage you receive are phsycal.
you can have enough dodge, parry, hit, and now expertise from the armor, so use the gems for Stamina, and enchants for Stamina + Agility.
As already stated and debated, you need different sets for different encounters. As a tank, I go with + stamina, especially for kara runs. Lots of spell damage in there, go fight Aran and see how dodge helps you! However in fighting Gruul 120 stamina may not be what you want in place of dodge/black/parry.
If you have farmed/tanked kara enough times, get the leggings twice, socket one with stam, and the other for dodge. Now you are a TANK and can switch no matter what the fight entails.
We have been farming kara for a few months now and I still have not seen these drop for us. I have two sets of Time wardens socketed like I explained above. Fights like Aran I use plus stamina, and some other fights more dodge and parry, like opera house with multiple mobs being tanked at one time. 120 stamina will not help me with 2-3 elites hitting me, but avoiding some of those hits does help.
Don't just be a good tank with lots of hp, be a great tank with a few tanking sets to match the fight you are in.
who cares about dodge and such, those are just better than the timewarden legs, take it easy. Just merge stats and you'll be fine
the sockets on this thing make me want to throw up
this is where being a stamtard makes sense
the sockets allow for 2 plus 4 def rating and 1 other, which doesnt really matter
so thats 18 stam from 3 gems (assuming the red is +6 stam and something), 8 xtra def rating, and maybe 4 xtra agiliity or something...
versus 36 stamina
i dont no which one id do...
if i can get these damn legs to drop for me in the first place
okay, take it from me, stamina is not EVERYTHING.
Sure, yeah, you want a lot of health but it isn't the most important thing.
I'll tell you why I'm a credible source- I used to be a stamina tank. I stacked stamina on everything, this is what I thought tanking was. I had heavy adamantite necklace, heavy adamantite ring, assassin's short blade of stamina, blah blah blah stamina stuff.
For a tank, aggro and mitgation = KING. You should only worry about stamina AFTER you have 490 defense, can generate aggro (For pallies that is getting 250 spell damage, but the gladiator hammer has 199, and plus 40 spell damage just about gets you there >.<) and have ENOUGH mitigation, I would go for uncrushable really but there's no reason to NOT have good health before being uncrushable :P
Uncrushability is somehow getting 102.4% or whatever total from dodge, parry and block. This means that if you have a spell or attack that increases any one of those, periodically, this will let you be uncrushable :P
Another important stat is expertise, if your guy doesn't parry, he won't do more damage, and if you don't miss, less miss = more aggro :D
But more or less mitigation = LESS damage taken. If you are uncrushable per say, ideally, you will take no damage. With block it's not possible but the IDEAL thing is that you will not take any damage from melee mobs, so, if they hit you, it will be a dodge parry or block, and, once again, ideally if 5 mobs are on you, if you take no damage, no health is gone. If no health is gone, healer does not have to heal, YOU, and dps can take out guys no problem.
Of course this never happens, and it is hard to stay uncrushable 100% of the time so you will need stamina when you start getting hurt. Also, stamina is good on spell damage guys, if you have around 13K health and you get hit by a spell damage attack obviously 15K health is better, but you have to think about taking melee damage as well.
To really state it, if you have 60% dodge parry and block you will only take 60% damage. That means that if you would normally get hit by an attack it only counts as 60%, and there WILL be no crits with 490 defense. So, you just reduced all damage taken by 60%. This = less heals, and more heals OVER TIME, meaning that if you only take 60% damage then you will last 60% longer. Considering that if you ADD holy shield or whatever other shield you will be at 102% for a while, meaning that you will take no damage.
Stamina only comes into play on bosses really. If you lose your uncrushability, some bosses hit for like 10K so if you have less than 10K health... hehe... and some hit for higher like 15K so you will need more stamina as you go through better instances, and consequently, get better gear :P
插槽加成: +6 耐力
耐久: 120 / 120
Bold Armor (Recolor)
Savage Plate Battlegear
TBCC Protection Paladin Tank Best In Slot Phase 1 Gear
TBCC Protection Warrior Tank Best In Slot Phase 1 Gear
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