hm...seems very good
The trinket looks to be decent for a raiding hunter, however it is nothing too terribly exciting. From my experiences as a hunter in raids at 70 and what I have read, Steady Shot is a good portion of damage, and is used in excess. However the proc could become rather annoying. If you're lucky then you could get a good increase. On the flipside, you might not get a proc at all.
Initial glance would say that it is good, although...
...is a very comparable item, and with a 2 minute cooldown, and the base +70, I would rather take the Bloodlust Brooch and pair it with...
... for hit rating,
...for crit rating,
it would mostly depend on your other stats as a hunter though. Although this trinket might be easier to get, I am not sure if the Ashtounge rep grind is bad or not.
Just my two cents. :)
Does anyone know the PPM on this trinket? I'm interested in using it in place of brooch, but if it has a long inner cooldown I won't bother.
all the ashtongue rewards can renew the procs(no hidden cd)
With a 15% proc rate it has a 50% chance of being up all the time (one steady every 2 seconds for a BM hunter). If we assume that it will proc every 20 seconds (a 12 second no-proc period), the effective average AP for the trinket is 183. The Berserker's Call (better than the Brooch) has an effective average AP of 90+60 if you blow the trinket every time it is up (which you wont).
This is clearly the best trinket in the game for a BM hunter, probably for all hunters (that use a "good" shot rotation).
The buff's name is Deadly Aim, and uses the icon for Master Marksman, for all those who like to keep a close eye on buffs.
there is 62.28% chanse of proccing once every 6 steady shot 1-(1x0.85^6)
67.94 % chanse of procing once every 7 steady shot, 1-(1x85^7)
if you can fire steady shot once every 2 sec, the buff will be around 0.6228x275x8/12
0.6228 chanse of proccing, 275 ap x 8 sec, over 12 sec due to it takes 12 sec to fire 6 steadys.
result: 114 ap
If you use wolfslayer rifle you can fire steady once every ~1.7sec making it 0.6228x275x8/10,2
---> 134 ap
Ofc, it can proc more often but I don't see how it will outweight the power of Berserker's Call + BW (or even +rapid fire)
If anything's wrong with my math plz comment on it, was a few years since I studdied statistics and would be happy to freshen up my memory :)
has anyone determined whether there is a hidden cooldown on this trinket yet?
Has there been any renewed mathcraft on this trinket with the 2:3 rotation?
Can Hourglass of the Unraveller
Stack Procs with this Trinket?
First of all of course this and the hourglass stack they are both "chance on...". Second of all I picked up this trinket the other night, and can say with confidence that it is not as good as the bloodlust brooch. I understand the math behind what the above posters are saying. Yes, 15% to proc means it should proc ~every 6.66 steadies, but the reality is no where close to that. The buff is very few and far between. Plus the loss of the static AP on the brooch, and the fact that when it does proc its not for as much gives the brooch more sway. All this said i think this is 28g you can keep in your bag if/when you get the rep.
Using 1:1 macro at 2.0 speed; 1 steady shot every 2 seconds. Therefore 0.5 shots every second.
15% chance (0.15 chance) per steady shot to proc 275 attack power for 8 seconds.
Ta = active time
Shots = 1/steady shot frequency
N = number of casts during Ta = Ta / Shot density.
P = probability of NOT proccing
The probability of the trinket being up at any given time is determined by the chance that the trinket has been procced at any time during the last Ta seconds, i.e.,
1 - P^N
In this case
Ta = 8 seconds
Shots = 1/0.5 = 2 (i.e. There is a steady shot every 2 seconds on average)
N = 8/2 = 4 (i.e. There will be 4 steady shots on average in that 8 seconds)
P = 1-0.15
Probability of being up = 1-0.85^4 = 0.478 = 47.8% uptime
Therefore, effective ap for Ashtongue is uptime*ap = 0.478*275 = 131.45 ap.
Berserker's Call is up 20/120 seconds, therefore 1/6 of the time, for 360 ap. Also has a passive 90ap. (1/6)*360 = 60 ap. Therefore 90 + 60 = an effective 150 ap.
Bloodlust brooch: 20 seconds out of 120 for 278 ap. Passive 72 ap. 20/120 = 1/6. 1/6*278 = 46.33 ap. 72 + 46.33 = 118.33 ap.
Therefore for a 2.0 speed and 1:1 rotation Berserker's Call wins! But since we may be using that in our first trinket slot, Ashtongue can be used in the second trinket instead of Bloodlust brooch (assuming you haven't got Madness, which would be better than both Ashtongue and Bloodlust).
Using a 3:2 rotation at 1.95 speed (so its below 2.0 for an effective 3:2 rotation); whole rotation (including getting back to the start) is ~4.875 seconds theorectically (however, 3:2 rotation calculations are difficult to do on paper due to some strange occurences between server and client).
The steady shot frequency for this is 3/4.875 = 0.615.
Ta = 8 seconds
Shots = 1/0.615 = 1.626 (i.e. There is a steady shot every 1.626 seconds on average)
N = 8/1.626 = 4.923 (i.e. There are 4.923 steady shots on average in those 8 seconds)
P = 1-0.15
Probability of being up = 1-0.85^4.923 = 0.550 = 55% uptime
Therefore for a 1.95 speed and a 3:2 (or 2:3) rotation, effective ap for Ashtongue is uptime*ap = 0.55*275 = 151.25 ap. So now above Berserker's Call (just), and even more greatly above Bloodlust Brooch than before.
NB: While hastes are active the Ashtongue would proc more often and become even more beneficial than Berserker's (assuming Berserker's itself isn't currently active). However, while Berserker's Call has an effective ap of 150; it actually has 90 ap passive and 360 ap condensed into 20 seconds out of 120. If those 20 seconds are at the same time as using TBW (+10% damage) and rapid fire is up, it amplifies the whole effective ap of the trinket... So bah, hard to analyse which one is better when you got all these wild variables floating around. Either way, use both until you got madness, then when you have madness swap one of them out.
Wow. Not going into to much detail but this is perhaps one of the best trinkets there is for a BM hunter. I can't see anything wrong with it. 15% chance for your steady shots to grant 275 AP is a pretty nice buff when 40%-60% of your attacks are steady shot. Just a little math here, if you make 500 attacks 200-300 of those will be a steady shot depending on the speed of your bow and shot rotation. thats at least 30-45 times you'll see this ability proc. Each proc is 8 seconds. thats 4-6 minutes of +275 AP in 500 shots. Considering most boss fights take 400-800 arrows for me and last 4-8minutes that almost ensures that I'll have a nearly constant AP buff. Too bad I'm still 4/5 MH. I want this trinket. Does it have a global cooldown? (I didn't read ALL of the comments so if someone already answered this, my apologies)
I have read this thread and I don't really care about the math I have seen this trinket in action.
I roll with a 1.98 base attack speed which is always being hasted to below that.
This trinket was continually procing. It was procing so much that it was refreshing itself.
This thing is insane.
For any fight that is more than a few seconds long this thing will blow away the Bloodlust Broach.
It may look like it is a lesser trinket at first blush but if you are specced right and have a good attack speed this thing will pay off in spades.
It is depending on the situation if it is better or worse than Berserkers Call.
With rapid fire or heroism, drums, haste pots it is clearly better than Berserkers Call because it has no cooldown. Meaning you may make use of the proc more often in those situations.
This imo makes it a better trinket in fights like Brutallus.
15%, thats pretty good.
I would carry this over most of the 375 engineering trinkets.
To RDarkfire and everyone giving negative ratings to people saying this item sucks,
You are all idiots and don't know how the hunter shot rotation works. This thing is a piece of sh!t.
Lets do a little math...
It is immpossible to get off 4 steady shots in 8 seconds because of the 1.5 second gcd, .5 second delay for autoshot, and human error but lets say you can for fun
4 steady shots every 8 seconds * 15% = 60% chance to have this up at any time.
250 ap 60% of the time = about
all of the time.
in reality you will only be able to do 3 SSs and this trinket will be worth about
112 consistent AP
if you do nothing but steady and auto with a fast gun.
Lets compare this to
This item gives you 72 AP for 100/120 second while the item is not in use. While in use the item gives 350 ap for 20/120 seconds.
In total 72*(100/120) + 350*(20/120) =
118.5 consistent AP
and it is 31 ilvls less and is why this item blows.
The only thing that would make this trinket worth using would be if this thing stacked and renewed, meaning 2 procs in a row would be 550 AP for 8 seconds. Even then i propbably would not use it unless, like others were saying, the proc rate was 25~30%; reason being, even if it stacked and renewed with that short of an effect and that low of a proc rate it would only stack once or twice in a boss fight.
Now, i dare all you to figure out how much consistent AP
Talon of al'ar
is worth and not spend all your RP on it. I DARE YOU!
Edit: Apparently Talon of Alar does not add any damage to auto shot and therefore also sucks...
simple: lets say average of 2.3-4 attackspeed with quiver so u get 4-5 shots in so (2 auto,2 steady and sometimes muti) 40X 4= 160 damage /6 seconds = 26.67 dps X 14 ap per dps = 373.333 ap. Thats what i came up with i have no clue if its correct.
Edit: nvm ull never get 5 shots cause of the .5 second delay. also note that this math is complete bull*!@# i think
For the dubiously played hunter (assuming you are a hunter) 2 posts up...
Its 275AP therefore in your calcs it works out as the equivalent of 123.75AP constantly.
The other factor you are forgetting is most haste effects also reduce the casting time of Steady Shot therefore it can be fired slightly more frequently than you predict.
However it all depends on spec and a survival hunter probably wouldnt use this.
Talking about raids, maybe i would use it although i believe there are better trinkets out there. But for pvp this trinket is completely useless. I have Skyguard Silver Cross and Bladefist's Breath wich is a deadly combination especialy in arenas. And as a bm hunter and pvper i rarely use steady shot, so there is a good reason for me to think this trinket is a crap.
Actually using the formula provided in the first post it can come to a boost of
170,5 + AP.
If you are at the point to get this trinket, you will most likely have about 4 haste items and a 3.0 speed weapon, which brings your speed down to a passive 1.93 from 3.0 as a BM.
That means in 8 seconds you will do 4,14 Steadys, which gives it a ~62% chance to be up (if the math provided is correct)
62% of 275 is 170,5 AP.
Add more if you have IAotH, Bloodlust etc.
This is a PvE trinket which is why you get it from Black Temple rep. Not meant for use in PVP.
A BM hunter uses a steady shot/auto shot macro, making this trinket most beneficial to them.
You people arn't factoring the most key thing about how u obtain this item. you have to run black temple and to get exalted u would probably be sucessful at this meaning u would have some bt gear and t6 which all has haste rating which increases attack speed. full bt gear would probly increase speed by 10% which would means less casting time on shots (this is true since as bm spec casting time of shot go down with attackspeed reduction) so this trinket would be very good espesialy when put with al'ar's talon for tempest keep.
lvl 70 Hunter Genjours
Raiding kara/ Gruul /Mag /Tk (ps sorry about any spelling mistakes i'm not good typer)
If you just hit 70 and are complaining about bg's, this page isn't the right one for you. You're 99.9% likely never to see black temple anyways.
As for the topic, as underwhelming as this trinket is, it's still better than most of the other classes trinkets. The new atp trinket off zuljin is way better, and coupled with the tsunami talisman (maybe dragonspine trophy), and you probably won't upgrade til the expansion hits.
However, most guilds really only see 2-3 of the dst/tsunami talisman during their farming of gruul/ssc. Meaning there's a ton of physical dps without them, and it most likely going to rogues and not hunters. It's a good, secure alternative that you're sure to at least get.
La La La....hehe
The Talon from Al'ar is much worse then this, If you are even going to get to the point of getting this trinket. You most likely won't even be using Arcane Shot sense the low DPS output of marks/surv, Only reason to go survival is to help AP based dps in you're raid group. (I'm not saying survival is bad for raiding but 41/20 puts out three times the damage)
With around 175 dps ( I'm not going to get into the argument wether this is true or not) average of this trinket. It's beaten everything trinket i've compared it to.
This math is using my average damage as marks. also including the armor of the NPCs I was attacking.
With talon Without talon
317.97235(white dps)-299.539171(White dps)=18.433179(Overall DPS increase)
18.433179x14=258.064506 (This would be the AP equivalent of the DPS added with the Talon)
for marks hunters Al'ar's talon > Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness
For BM hunters Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness > Al'ar's talon
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